(no subject)

[the_rck]

Now that Cordelia is starting to develop breasts and is about to start middle school, I'm trying to get her in the habit of wearing bras. My experience in middle school was that girls who didn't-- whether they needed one or not-- got teased horribly, and I don't want her to go through that.

I'm a bad example, however, because I rarely wear bras, only two or three times a year. Up until last week, I only owned one bra. It's hard to find bras that fit me that aren't miserably uncomfortable. I can't deal with lace or underwires. I've only found one bra that avoids both and comes in my size. Last week, I ordered three more bras. I washed them yesterday and intend to start wearing them regularly. I'm hoping that, if Cordelia sees me doing it, she'll do it. At the very least, I'll have more moral authority if I tell her she needs to wear them.

Comments

[diony]

Is she the sort of child who would prefer to do the prophylactic rather than be teased? It seems a tricky road.

[the_rck]

She's difficult to predict. She's not susceptible to peer pressure about going to fifth grade camp, for example. She says she'd rather not go than go without her iPad even though everybody else will be going. She is, however, very concerned about doing things 'right' when it comes to interacting with other kids.

Anyway, she goes back and forth on whether or not she cares what other people think. She's only been teased in an ongoing way once, back in first grade. That upset her pretty badly. I'm afraid she'll take middle school harassment very personally. (It's a reason I favor keeping her at her current school.)

[zhelana]

I have found Lane Bryant has a bra that doesn't have lace or underwire and I can wear comfortably.

EDIT: I have NO IDEA why Victoria's Secret came out there, but I really meant LB.

[the_rck]

I wonder if Lane Bryant might be cheaper than the place I mail ordered from. The last time I went bra shopping, there was one style of bra that fit me and didn't have lace or underwire. Just one. When I wanted more, I googled the company that made it and spent about forty-five minutes searching their website to try to find that style. I found something close-- but not quite the same-- in my size.

[zhelana]

Well LB isn't cheap, but I have found their stuff lasts forever.

[retsuko]

I don't know how to ask this delicately, so I'll just say it: are her breasts noticeable? When mine came in, they looked like Madonna's cone bra (pointy, most notably) and several kids commented very cruelly about them. My mom eventually took me to Sears and I ended up with a training bra that stopped most of the comments.

If other kids are noticing or saying something, or Cordelia's uncomfortable, it would be well worth the time and effort to get her a proper fitting. It might be nice to work that into a special time out, and to emphasize that she's growing up. You can field any questions she might have about why you don't wear them, and what societal expectations generally are vs. what she's comfortable with. Speaking as someone with a large chest, I can only add that finding the right bra (after years of wearing the wrong size) was a revelation that I wish I'd had earlier.

[the_rck]

I don't think other kids are noticing or that Cordelia's uncomfortable. I'm just remembering when I started middle school-- Any girl who didn't wear a bra, however little she needed one, caught hell in the locker room.

As to getting fitted, I know it's important. I spent my teenage years fighting with my mother over bras-- She insisted, in spite of fittings to the contrary, that I was a B cup.

Of course, for any bra shopping either Scott has to come along or I have to try to draft somebody else to do the driving. Scott's mother might be willing if we wait until July or August.

[evalerie.livejournal.com]

I think that may vary by school and by group. Nobody at Kendra's middle school is bugging anybody about that, and it was never an issue when I was in junior high school, but I have a relative at a school in the Boston area where that is an issue -- though only during gym class. But this is not a topic I know a lot about.

[the_rck]

It mattered a great deal at my middle school. So did shaving one's legs and underarms. Gym was when the other girls could tell one way or the other, but the bullying carried past gym.

If we keep Cordelia at her current school, it won't matter because the kids won't be changing clothes for gym. This makes it a strong temptation for me to keep her there.

[evalerie.livejournal.com]

It might be worth asking on Arborparents, to try to find out what the culture is on this topic at Ann Arbor middle schools. I'd be happy to post it anonymously if you'd like.

[the_rck]

Sure. I'd appreciate that. Specifically ask about Clague. It might be different, depending on which school.

If you could ask about leg shaving and underarm shaving, too, I'd be grateful. Those were a big deal at my middle school.

[evalerie.livejournal.com]

Ok, it is posted.

[anderyn.livejournal.com]

I envy you the not-bra-wearing. I have worn one ever since I was 13 or so. I can't go without. Being a 46 triple D makes going without unthinkable. Luckily there are lots of nice bras without lace or under wires in the Roaman's catalog. Leslie has been wearing bras since last summer. It feels weird that she is because she's only 9 and still in elementary school. But she is pretty good about always wearing one now.

[the_rck]

I'm a 44 triple D (though, judging by how these new bras fit, I may actually be a 46 triple D. I hope not. I just bought three new bras). I can go without and have for about twenty years. Wearing bras again is... challenging.

I've read that puberty is coming much younger these days. The article I read (I think it was in Time) said that doctors don't consider it early as long as the girl is at least eight.

Cordelia doesn't really need a bra yet. She has breast buds but not much more. Of course, I'm not the best judge of when a bra is necessary. I tend to think that, but for social convention, they never are. Cordelia complains that her bras are too hot. I don't know what she'll think in the summer or when she's wearing something more than training/sports bras.

[anderyn.livejournal.com]

Interesting that we're so close in size and still find what's comfortable and what's not so very different. Perhaps it is that my mother made me wear one at all times (even while sleeping) once I needed one, so I feel naked without (same as I feel naked without underwear or uncomfortable if I can't have a shower every morning).

Leslie has graduated to real bras since we got her the first sports bralettes in August -- she likes them better than the bralettes, I think. She got hers as hand-me-downs from a slightly older friend, so I haven't taken her bra shopping quite yet. Of course, she has her Mom and me as examples of wearing them, so she isn't being all weird about it.

Leg-shaving and pit shaving are whole other matters. I gave up on my legs years ago, since vision issues and my inability to wield sharp blades without slicing large portions of my skin off just got worse as I got older, and who the hell cares? Rhiannon is also not all that into it, though she does shave when she's dressing up and/or feels the need.

[the_rck]

My mother kept insisting that I was a B cup, in spite of fittings to the contrary. That meant that I had a lot of bras that didn't really fit. Of course, I never actually saw the point of a bra. My breasts don't generally do anything loose that they don't do in a bra as well.

[houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com]

Back in the dark ages, when we didn't want to wear bras but weren't up to burning them either, girls around A or B cup would flatten the nipple with a bandaid.

[the_rck]

Interesting!

I don't think that would help in the locker room for gym class, though, and that's what I'm really worried about. If Cordelia finds wearing a bra more comfortable than not for running around, she'll figure that out. I just don't want her harassed for not wearing one.

[anderyn.livejournal.com]

Is that really an issue when kids are so young? I might be worried that Leslie will be teased if they have to change for gym in fifth grade, since she's wearing bras already, but I can't imagine being teased for not wearing one if you're flat and undeveloped.

[the_rck]

When I was in middle school, all girls had to wear bras, need them or not, or face harassment in the locker room. We all had to shave, too.

[kyrielle]

I was mocked mercilessly in sixth grade when I didn't have a bra on. I had nothing to put a bra on TO, but that made no difference. I had to ask my mom for training bras - which was doubly embarrassing, because I had to explain why I needed them when I clearly _didn't_ need them. That sucked.

I don't remember the issue in fifth grade, but it probably varies by school, region, and year when it starts exactly.

[kyrielle]

This company came up on my friends feed on FB today. I link to the about page, not the products, because I think the philosophy is the best intro - but it might be something to consider for Cordelia?

http://www.yellowberrycompany.com/ABUS.html

[kyrielle]

I should add, the problem here is that it's a small company in a niche, and they are holy whoa not cheap.