(no subject)

[the_rck]

I'm trying to decide if I'm being reasonable as a parent-- Back during the ice cream social (so early June), there was another mother of a girl Cordelia's age who has forbidden her daughter ever to be alone with a boy. That seemed to me to be unreasonable, both because the kids are only eleven and because it shows so little trust in her daughter (though I suppose she could be worried that the boy might not take a no seriously).

I let Cordelia be in her room alone with a neighbor boy who's also eleven. Sometimes his ten year old sister comes, too, but sometimes she doesn't (or sometimes she comes without him). That seems like a reasonable thing for me to do, but then I remember that other mother and wonder if I'm doing the right thing.

I mean, they're only eleven, and some day, when Cordelia's older, she'll have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, and we'll leave them alone together then. I can't see driving all of us crazy trying to police Cordelia's every action in order to protect her.

Am I overlooking something?

Comments

[wyldbutterflies]

Our mother allowed the boys we had over to enter our room so that we could talk or play games - but the caveat was that we leave the door open. It was a measure of trust in us, but also a way of keeping us safe should something happen that we didn't really want to happen.

I don't think that it is unreasonable to let 11-year-olds hang out together wherever they want because many of them aren't even thinking about sex at that point. Besides, if they were going to do something, it could happen anywhere really - not just the bedroom.

[the_rck]

Our house is small enough that I can hear everything that happens in Cordelia's room. The closed door isn't really a barrier to that, but it gives Cordelia a sense of privacy that I don't want to take away from her. I think she closes the door more because my existence is embarrassing than because she wants to hide anything from me.

[adrian_turtle]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to let her be alone with a boy, but you might want to limit that to boys you know. A few years ago, you wanted to meet the parent of the other kid before leaving her there for a playdate? It's somewhat similar here--you don't need to police her every action to let both kids know you're concerned.

[the_rck]

I think knowing the boy makes a difference. This particular boy is quite responsible. There are other boys who were in Cordelia's class who I wouldn't trust in her room because I'd be afraid that they'd break things. I'm starting to think about sex with regard to Cordelia and boys (or girls), but I don't think it's on the radar for the kids yet, and, well, they're eleven. That's as it should be.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it depends on the boy, and the boys parents. If you feel that the parents are the kind of people who teach their son to respect other people, and are respectful to each other then it's likely you won't have too much to worry about.

I second the open door policy, though.

[the_rck]

The current boy, I do know his parents, and they seem to be good people. The husband stays home with the kids, but it's the wife whose e-mail address I've got because she did all the arrangements for her daughter's participation in Girl Scouts.

[adrian_turtle]

I think it's worth asking what you're trying to prevent, and how bad/how likely it is. This is often less anxiety-triggering than non-specific worry that "something" will go wrong unless you do something, anything, to stop it.

So. Are you worried that Cordelia and some boy she really likes are going to kiss each other because of a mutual crush? (Or in a spirit of giggly curiosity?) How bad would that be? Are you worried about trusting her not to kiss, or trusting her not to kiss without talking to you about it, or trusting her not to do more than kissing without using good judgment?

Are you worried that Cordelia might get pressured into something sexual that she doesn't really want? Or that she isn't quite ready for? Are you worried she needs more skills to resist verbal pressure or call for help? (I keep looking for some alternative/backup to "don't let them be alone in a room together." When I was 12, I was raped by a boy my own age. Outdoors. I was too intimidated to get help in a useful way.)

Are you worried she will offend some local standards of propriety? Having a chaperone on certain occasions, or wearing a ladylike hat, or pretending not to know Certain Things in public...a person might do that to fit in socially rather than for other kinds of safety. They're things a person does to avoid slut-shaming, even though they don't have direct connection to sex.

[the_rck]

Right now, I'm not particularly worried that anything bad is going to happen.

In the long run, I want Cordelia to feel safe and feel that we respect her judgment and privacy. For the moment, I think she's too young for anything beyond a kiss (and she's probably too young for that). I want her right to say yes or no to be respected by whoever she's with.

I do think that the boy who's currently coming over is more interested in Cordelia's computer than he is in Cordelia. He and his sister have fallen into playing with Cordelia because she lives close by (there are other eleven year old boys further down the block. Cordelia doesn't like them, and this boy is apparently not interested in playing with them). I like him reasonably well, and we know his family well enough that I asked them to look after Cordelia when I had a doctor's appointment.

[retsuko]

Hmmm. Given all your comments above, it sounds like you're doing all the right things. You trust the boy, and you trust Cordelia. You're giving her the tools to become a confident young woman and that's awesome. That other parent, however well-meaning, is wrong IMHO.

[the_rck]

I'm trying my best. As you know, parenting doesn't come with clear instructions, and each child is different.

Cordelia has said outright that growing up sounds like an awful thing. She doesn't want to be an adult. She already worrying about whether or not she'll be able to handle college, poor kid.

[retsuko]

Aw, Cordelia. :(

I felt much the same way that she did at various points in my childhood, especially as I began to grasp what sort of responsibility I'd be shouldering. Is she open to the good things about being an adult as well as the bad stuff? Because there is a lot of good stuff. ;)

[kyrielle]

I agree, you're doing everything right. Perhaps the other mother has specific concerns about *her* daughter, or perhaps she has a different view on propriety than you.

Growing up, I had a friend whom I would visit, whose mother never let us be alone with a male friend (two girls and a guy, no less) and it seemed strange to me but I shrugged and moved on. (Frankly, leaving the particular friend in question alone with us would have been more dangerous near a fire pit than a bedroom, since the odds that he would try some explosive stunt were much higher than the odds of anything like I now think her mother was thinking of!)

It also depends on the house. You say you can pretty much hear everything in Cordelia's room even with the door shut - so you're still supervising to some degree, regardless. Perhaps the other family has a house more like the one I'm in, where it's possible for something quiet to happen in the boys' rooms that we wouldn't hear if we were in some parts of the downstairs?

Either way, I'd stick with a combination of what you're doing and addressing any worries (if any!) you actually have, either by deciding they aren't actually a big deal if they happen, or whatever method seems best if they are.

[the_rck]

I think the other mother has different views on propriety than I do.

I think I want to trust Cordelia's judgment as long as I know the boy at least a bit. She'll be a teenager soon, and while they have notoriously bad judgment, making decisions is part of growing up. It's my job to give her the information she needs to make her decisions.

[untonuggan]

I think part of the most important thing is not necessarily the door open/closed policy (since you can hear things anyway), but that Cordelia knows that she can talk to you if she is uncomfortable with someone or if something boundary-pushing/crossing does happen (crosses all crossables this doesn't happen). Or even just if she has questions about birth control or whatever.

Personal story time: My dad's attitude when I was growing up was that all teenage boys only want "one thing" and thus had very strict attitudes towards who I was allowed to be with, when, where, doors open, which rooms, etc. It definitely conveyed an attitude that he did not trust that I had good judgement. As the inevitable teenage rebellion arose, I did things that were not within his parameters of "safe." Probably way beyond what a reasonable parent would have set as "safe", but I was just so MAD at the constant restrictions and everything. Also trying to figure out being attracted to girls was complicating things, and so when I had a boyfriend I was desperately clinging to as a heterosexuality shield and that boyfriend happened to be a manipulating, entitled abuser…well, my parents had already told me they didn't like him and my dad didn't trust him. So I really really didn't feel okay telling my dad (or mom, for that matter) that the exact things he had always warned me about had happened with someone he had warned me about, thus proving him "right" because I was viscerally afraid of victim blaming (and slut-shaming at school). Plus it wasn't as though anyone in school or elsewhere had ever taught me, "here's how you negotiate sexual boundaries with a consensual partner." Welcome to the land of me still dealing with PTSD.

I say this not to freak you out or anything, but because if you can establish (even more than you already have) a relationship with Cordelia where it is OK for her to tell you about things like sex or "taboo" things and your first reaction is one of listening rather than, "Who told you that?" or some sort of loss of privileges…then I think you'll survive the teenage crucible better than I did.

[the_rck]

I want Cordelia's choices to be genuine choices. I want her to be safe. I want her partners to be looking for an enthusiastic yes and willing to accept a no, even a soft no. The potential for bad things to happen scares me, but I hope Cordelia will know that she can count on us no matter what.

[marith.livejournal.com]

aie. Not in touch with modern eleven year olds in your area, but it seems not only over the top but also a creepy to tell a girl that age that interactions with boys are by definition About Sex and must be policed. I'm glad Cordelia is able to think of the neighbor boy as a friend to play with - surely when she's older and has boyfriends or girlfriends, they'll be friends at the same time, and not another species.

[the_rck]

I want whoever she goes out with to be a friend. I think that's key to having a healthy relationship. It makes the break ups harder, I know, but the relationships are healthier.

[chorus-of-chaos.livejournal.com]

I would be concerned that level of prohibition could lead the girl to feel that all men are evil or something...I dunno..

My parents rule was I could have a guy in my room with me but the door must be open, which was very reasonable IMHO.

[the_rck]

Or that she'll think friendships with males can only be about sex. Some men may think that, but it's not an attitude of which I approve.

I need to think about the open door. Having it closed is more an illusion of privacy than actual privacy in this house. From the living room, I can hear everything that happens in Cordelia's room.

[rthstewart.livejournal.com]

Nope. You're spot on and the other parent is the weirdo.

[the_rck]

I don't want Cordelia to feel like we don't trust her or like no boys are to be trusted. Some boys can't be trusted, definitely, but... I don't want to make her paranoid at age eleven. She thinks periods are scary. Sex isn't even on the radar yet.

I do want her to be safe. I want her yeses and noes to be respected. If she ever needs me to help enforce that, I hope I'll be handy to back her up.